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Cedar hot tub Seattle

*All Packages are quoted with electric heat and circulation pumps, but we also offer the following heater options: - Gas - Propane - Wood Fired-Before purchasing a tub package from J&K, it is the homeowners responsibility to have a licensed electrician and contractor come out to inspect their home to ensure they have the necessary requirements, electrical or gas for running the hot tub Snorkel Hot Tubs offers the best selection of wood, Western Red Cedar, hot tub sizes and heating systems available at great prices. Our wood-fired hot tubs, are complemented by our selection of gas and electric heated hot tubs. Gas and electric heated hot tubs can be controlled by simple electro-mechanical timers or the most advanced, WiFi compatible digital control systems Each wood hot tub is hand crafted using 100%, 2″ nominal Clear All Heart Old Growth Western Red Cedar and built to last many years. Besides our standard sizes, we can custom build a cedar hot tub to meet your particular needs. We'll help you size the cedar hot tub you need and will work to ensure you get the tub system you want Roberts Hot Tubs. Since 1976 Roberts Hot Tubs has been complementing some of the most beautiful homes, estates and resorts of the world with finely crafted traditional wooden hot tubs and wooden baths. With the varying sizes, shapes, types of wood and jet location possibilities, a wooden hot tub can be a most relaxing experience. Using only the. Seattle Hot Tub Company is proud to be actively involved with the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Marquis Spas granted their 800th wish in 2017. To date we are at almost 900 swim spa and hot tub wishes granted to children either in need of hydrotherapy or those kids just wanting a pool or spa because they enjoy swimming

Cedar Hot Tub

A wooden hot tub is a gorgeous addition to any backyard. Handmade in the USA by our Zen master craftsmen. Sort by: Cedar Hot Tub with Electric Heater by Zen Bathworks. $4,880.00. Choose Options. Cedar Hot Tub with Gas Heater by Zen Bathworks. $6,198.00. Choose Options. Cedar Hot Tub with Wood Heat by Zen Bathworks. $4,057.00. Our wooden hot tubs come in many different shapes and sizes, from our Classic Cedar hot tub to our Japanese Ofuro Tub. Our wooden hot tub sizes range from small 1 or 2 person hot tub such as our ofuro soaking tub to large round hot tubs seating up to large 10 person - family tub sales. Northern Light's incorporates the most modern hot tub. Our cedar hot tubs are available in a variety of standard sizes, or we can custom manufacture sizes to meet your specifications. Each wood hot tub comes with a complete state of the art hot tub equipment package standard to insure long life reliability. The options for heating cedar hot tubs include electric or gas Northern Lights Manufactures the finest Hot Tubs made from Canadian Western Red Cedar. We export internationally direct to our customers in order to provide the best customer service and the most competitive prices. If you have any question feel free to. call us at 1 800 759 8990. Northern Lights Cedar Hot Tubs have been popular among. Hot Tub Gazebos & Spa Enclosures. We use top quality clear Western Red Cedar (WRC) to build our Hot Tub Gazebos & Spa Enclosures. Spa Gazebos made with WRC ensure that your investment will last year-after-year and provide you with quality, affordable backyard adventures. Easy, ready to assemble kits. Pre-panelized walls and leak proof roofing

t i n y g o g o : Doug and Erin's wood-fired hot tub

Cedar wood hot tubs

seattle for sale cedar hot tub - craigslist. see in map view. No mappable items found. close fullscreen. $973. favorite this post. Jun 15 ON SALE NOW - 33% OFF - 29 Hot Tubs! For a limited time, our 29-inch (height) Coopered Cedar Hot Tubs are 33% off! Sale includes coopered tubs of all sizes (diameter) and heating system type (electric, gas, wood). Shop Now! COVID-19 Update: Zen Bathworks hopes that you and your families are safe and well during this time We have Hot Tubs, Covers, Replacement Parts. Anything you might need to enhance your enjoyment of your hot tub. Open Mon.-Sat. 9-6pm, call 206-824-7939 All our cedar wood hot tubs and barrel saunas use 100% Canadian Red Cedar. We select the highest quality knot-free cedar for its proven resistance to insects and rot. Cedar is the best choice of lumber for maximizing outdoor lifespan. Easy Self Assembly Olympic Hot Tub sells Hot Spring hot tubs, supplies and services to Seattle, Everett, Tacoma, and Olympia Washington areas

For more than 40 years Roberts Hot Tubs has made a practice of buying the best lumber available. We purchase directly from responsible mills who practice sustainable methods. Though our Western Red Cedar tubs are our most popular models, Alaskan Yellow Cedar and Teak tubs have gained popularity over the years Watch on. 0:00. 0:00. 0:00 / 1:42. Live. •. Review these spa models to find the right fit. Then visit us to experience the spa in person. Many models are on display 7 x 4 w/Snorkel. SN74D. $7,370. $670. $300. $105. $6,295. $1,075. * This Tub & Stove package is intended for very cold climates where extra high heating capacity is needed

Cedar Wood Hot Tubs Custom Wood Hot Tubs Electric or Gas Hea

Here at Lake Union Hot Tub Boats, we've combined two of the best things - boating on the lake and relaxing in a hot tub. The result is a Seattle boat rental service like no other. See what it's like to float around Lake Union in a one-of-a-kind wood-fired hot tub boat Seattle Tacoma and Bellevue retailer of Hot Tubs, Fireplaces, Gas Inserts Swimming Pools, & Barbecue Grills. Interested in a hot tub or gas fireplace? Visit any one of Aqua Quips 9 Seattle local neighborhood locations Sound Cedar has been supplying quality building materials for builders and homeowners for over 37 years. Our employees have decades of building industry experience and are here to help you with your project. We are located in the heart of Western Red Cedar country, in the Pacific Northwest You have access to 1 bedroom, a bathroom with two lavish 12-inch rain-shower heads, a full kitchen, and two outdoor cedar decks. It's basically everything and more that you could ever really ask for in a cabin. Related posts: There's a spectacular natural waterslide hidden on this hike near Seattle Spa Gazebo Kits & Cedar Hot Tub Enclosures for sale. From $14,879.00 - $24,949.00. We're Dedicated To Our Customers. I am amazed that in this day and age there still exists a company that delivers EXACTLY what they advertise — and more! J. Pullen - Parksville, BC

Wooden Hot Tubs, Cedar Hot Tubs & Wood Soaking Tubs at RHTub

  1. Best Hot Tub on Craigslist HotSprings 220 Volt New Cover. $6,999 (Seattle) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $3,999
  2. Specialties: We manufacture and sell, direct to consumer, the finest cedar hot tubs. Our specialty is our wood-fired hot tubs. We originated the concept of a submerged wood-burning stove to heat hot tubs back in 1979. We also offer a wide variety of gas and electric heat systems for our cedar hot tubs. If you like the natural beauty of a cedar hot tub, we have a heating system for every need.

This oval tub comes in the size of 2.5 x 5 ft., making it perfect for 1-2 people. It is 2.5 feet high with an inside depth of 25 inches. Dundalk hot tubs are perfect for relaxing outdoors in any weather. Even if it's snowing, the hot water mass will keep you warm for as long as you like. The efficient design of the heater will heat the tub. Seattle Tacoma and Bellevue retailer of Hot Tubs, Fireplaces, Gas Inserts Swimming Pools, & Barbecue Grills. Interested in a hot tub or gas fireplace? Visit any one of Aqua Quips 9 Seattle local neighborhood locations Our classical and natural cedar saunas & hot tubs fit seamlessly into your property. Our wood burning hot tubs are 100% off grid. All you need is water, wood and a match! The simplest expression of organic minimalism. Backcountry offers manufacturer direct pricing, save up to 40% on quality outdoor saunas and hot tubs buy dealing directly with. South Puget Sound, WA. Jan 13, 2021. #2. Snorkel had been making wood fired cedar hot tubs for years here in Seattle. They are sold worldwide. Expand Signature. PE Alderlea T6, Jotul F602. The most important tool in the wood burning process and the largest variable is the one that is running the stove

Construction. We make all our saunas with the finest kiln dried, 100% heartwood Western Red Cedar. The barrel sauna's floor and sides are 1 9/16″ thick, providing high quality insulation. Corrosion proof, stainless steel bands hold our saunas together. All sauna styles have relatively easy assembly using the minimum amount of tools Clearwater has been in business since 1976. We are located in Arlington, Washington just outside of Seattle. Clearwater Spas is one of the largest manufacturers of premium spas in the Northwest. We are very proud of the culture of our people and the quality of our products. Our brand new modern 60,000 sq ft plant in Arlington, WA opened its.

Hot Tubs Seattle Seattle Hot Tub Company United State

Round Wooden Hot Tubs. Roberts Hot Tubs is considered to be the benchmark to which all other hot tubs should be held. Since 1976, the craftsmanship and time that is put into every one of our round wooden hot tubs is unparalleled. Crafted from clear, heart Western Red Cedar, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, and Teak Wood Your local Seattle hot tub store. Aqua Quip is a proud dealer of quality hot tubs and spas from Sundance Spas and Jacuzzi Hot Tubs, DreamMaker Spas, and Nordic Hot Tubs. As established brands in the spa industry, Jacuzzi and Sundance offer high quality products that are energy efficient with a long lifetime. Since 1959, we have been helping our. Stainless steel hot tubs are the ideal choice for yacht spa construction. The metal is relatively light and highly corrosion resistant. Diamond Spas can fabricate any design configuration to accommodate our clients sailing the high seas. Nothing speaks class like a custom stainless steel spa nestled upon the deck of a mega yacht 6' x 3' cedar wood-fired hot tub with Snorkel® Stove Contemporary Deck, Seattle. We originated wood-fired hot tubbing in 1979. The Snorkel® Stove was designed originally to enable off grid hot tubbing in Alaska . The rustic charm and the ability of our wood-fired hot tubs to go anywhere has inspired users in all corners of the world 60 reviews of Elliott Bay Sauna & Hot Tub This place is really cool and you would maybe never know it by driving by. There are a bunch of private rooms with hot tubs and saunas. The hot tubs are really deep and seat four, but really only comfortably fit two. There is a shower in the room and also a bed (in case you don't find that sketchy)

Cedar Steps | Houzz

By all accounts, rustic wood-fired hot tubs constitute a tiny niche of the broad hot-tub market. Their most prominent manufacturer, Snorkel Hot Tubs in Seattle, estimates that it has sold a total. Redwood Outdoors. 30 North Gould Street Suite 1918 Sheridan, Wyoming 82801 United States. 1 800 567 803 Browse 266 Cedar Hot Tub on Houzz. Whether you want inspiration for planning cedar hot tub or are building designer cedar hot tub from scratch, Houzz has 266 pictures from the best designers, decorators, and architects in the country, including Projects General Construction, Inc and Secret Gardens

Amenities include a cedar hot tub, Weber gas grill, hi-fi stereo, fireplace, balcony, deck, and fire pit. We're just 2.5 scenic hours from Portland and Seattle, and we're dog friendly. Find us on Instagram @littleowlcabin, and click on our profile to see our other Rainier cabins, Little Owl and Ohanapecosh.-Ryan, Airbnb Hos For instance, there are programmes for doing aqua aerobics in hot tubs instead of pools. These programmes have been shown to help people lose more weight due to the temperature of the water. The hotter water temperature allowed them to lose weight more easily. Also, the jets in the hot tub provided more resistance, leading to more weight loss Located in a refurbished 3,800 square foot space in the revitalized SoDo neighborhood of Seattle, Glass Distillery opened in February 2012. Your tour begins in our original tasting room that features the world's only tasting table that is actually a functioning cedar hot tub! The glittering glass infused concrete floor, paintings by founder. Two outdoor cedar hot tubs are privately reserved by the hour ($10 per guest). Massages and saunas are available. The Tatoosh Lodge, which sleeps 14, is perfect for groups

Cedar Hot Tubs - Make Your Backyard A Sanctuary Zen

Barrel Hot Tubs, Cedar Hot Tubs and Wooden Hot Tub

Here are several reasons why this wood makes the perfect choice for a wooden hot tub: Safe From Fires Surely, in your search for a wood fired hot tub Canada, you have to consider if the wood itself is proven to be fire-resistant. Red Western Cedar is the safest option. Durable The wooden hot tub is going to spend all its time in the outdoors Rates for this unbelievably cute cabin start at $131.00 per night on Airbnb. Off-Grid Cabin on 100 Acres w/ Cedar Hot-Tub&View / Airbnb. Ratings are almost perfect, and the host has earned a 4.98 star average, which means you know you will be enjoying your stay here Jun 7, 2013 - Explore EcoCircuit Distributors | Kelo's board Wooden Hot Tubs, followed by 132 people on Pinterest. See more ideas about hot tub, hot tub outdoor, cedar hot tub more We manufacture and sell, direct to consumer, the finest cedar hot tubs.Our specialty is our wood-fired hot tubs.We originated the concept of a submerged wood-burning stove to heat hot tubs back in 1979.We also offer a wide variety of gas and electric heat systems for our cedar hot tubs.If you like the natural beauty of a cedar hot tub, we have a heating system for every need, preference. With enticing cities such as Olympia and Seattle, Washington attracts tourists from around the world, and all are searching for the perfect rental for their stay. Our luxury rentals are equipped with both Wi-Fi and a private hot tub, meaning you won't have to sacrifice luxury in order to vacation in this rugged state

Cedar Hot Tubs Wood Hot Tubs Tanks Cedar Barrel Saunas

8 Budget-Friendly DIYs for Your Deck or Patio | HGTV's

Northern Lights Cedar Tubs - Quality Cedar Hot Tub

  1. Valkea Seattle 44mm Log Cabin Garden Building is a thick Log Cabin. This Seattle 44mm log cabin is a 5.5m x 4m log cabin you could use as a garden office. This is a garden building log cabin that does not need planning permission. And part of the range of cabins that do not need planning permission is required. This log cabin ideal for a hot tub is a log cabin with big windows
  2. Looking for Working Not, Hot Springs Hot Tub $0 (sea > Seattle,Fremont) hide this posting restore restore this posting. favorite this post Jul 4 Free Hot Tub Removal of your Unwanted Spa $0 red cedar hot tub $4,000 (pdx > saint johns) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $2,000
  3. That being said, we would absolutely never recommend something to you that we don't stand behind 100%. Table of Contents hide. 1 The 28 Best Cabins in Washington State for Your Next Getaway. 1.1 Cabins Along the Stevens Pass Highway (Hwy 2) 1.2 Cabins Near Mt. Rainier. 1.3 Cabins on the Olympic Peninsula
  4. Private Guesthouse w/Hot Tub & Breathtaking Views. This luxurious private guesthouse for up to four guests is located at the Inn at Saltwater Farm. Available on Airbnb, it's pet-friendly and includes both an outdoor shower and a cedar hot tub that overlooks the Salish Sea. North Cascades National Park. Distance from Seattle: 2 hours/107 mile
Ofuro Soaking Tubs vs

Spa Enclosures & Hot Tub Gazebos by Cedarview Manufacturin

  1. This tiny Vermont cabin comes complete with modern amenities, including a custom-built cedar hot tub. The owners are treehouse enthusiasts, who have several available for rent nearby
  2. dfulness meditation, forest bathing, and journaling. *Additional wellness sessions available for a no
  3. 2007 Cedar Creek 34RLTS 34ft. 5th Wheel 3 Slides 4yr Service Contract. $29,900 (Vancouver) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $150. favorite this post. Jun 26

seattle for sale cedar hot tub - craigslis

Best Hot Tub on Craigslist HotSprings JetSetter 110 Volt New Cover. $3,999 (sea > Seattle) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $7,500. favorite this post These traditional, wooden hot tubs are hand-crafted from eastern white cedar, offering quality and craftsmanship that stand the test of time. environmentally sustainable. and naturally beautiful, these tubs easily fit almost any setting. Ideal for cottages and a focal point in any yard, Wakefield Wood Tubs can be custom built to suit different.

As you soak away your tensions you may want to stargaze from the tub in the cozy Greenhouse Spa courtyard or try the Woodland Spa's lush forest hollow. Hot Tubs Wellspring's two cedar hot tubs can each be privately reserved by the hour between 11:00 AM to 9:00 PM daily. Rates are $10.00 per hour per guest for Wellspring lodging guests Cabins with Hot Tubs near Seattle. Book the best cabins with private hot tub Seattle has to offer. After a day of hiking the Cascades, exploring Downtown, or kayaking through Lake Washington, nothing sounds quite as good as returning to your cabin rentals with a luxury private hot tub. Seattle, is the perfect area to fulfill your glamping desires

Zen Bathworks - Luxurious, Natural Japanese Soaking Tubs

Moosu Guest House is a railroad style cabin designed for two people with 12 foot ceilings and floor to ceiling windows in the bedroom for a superb stargazing experience. The private, unshared outdoor spa features a cedar hot tub and barrel sauna. Turkish spa towels and linen robes are provided to complete the spa experience Do-it-yourself portable cedar hot tubs and exercise tubs available to the public with factory direct wholesale discount pricing. Energy efficient and insulated with high quality Western Red Cedar or Redwood complete system kits from Great Northern® Hot Tubs Yuan Spa. And finally, we have to cap the list with Yuan Spa which offers your classic spa services. But they have a focus on Eastern Hollistic practices so you can also have services like cupping. So if you're looking to try something new be sure to check out Yuan Spa. Where: 1032 106th Ave NE

The Spa Warehouse Seattle, your local hot tub deale

  1. Hot tubs, commonly referred to as a spa or Jacuzzi®, offer a multitude of health benefits, while also providing a fun and relaxing way to connect with family and friends. Whether you want to ease sore and tired muscles or simply unwind at the end of the day, a new hot tub will be a welcome addition to any outdoor space
  2. ute drive from Mount Rainier National Park. The property is a 30-
  3. The oversized cedar hot tub was added as a place to soak on summer days, and it doubles as an emergency water source. Mediterranean courtyard, reflection pond, mirror pond, hot tub, spa, water fall, fire pit, outdoor fire place, outdoor kitchen, outdoor lighting, outdoor sink, covered structure, gazebo, outdoor t.v. , pathway, syn lawn, seat.
  4. Kirami Premium Woody M Red Cedar Hot Tub Package. 4-6 seater. 170cm diameter. CUBE/TUBE heater. NO LED option. 190kg (tub) £ 6,113.00 (ex VAT £ 5,094.16) Select options
  5. this is my japanese wooden hot tub in my backyard. This is a raw outdoor hot hubs. Without any water yet. surrounding by wooden log. You can find wood fired hot tub for sale here on royal Tub Uk. The current price for these cedar hot tub is around 1,399 pound or around 1700 USD

Redwood Outdoor

On-the-grid comforts. Four luxurious, dog-friendly cabins, just minutes from Mt. Rainier National Park, White Pass Ski Area and the Pacific Crest Trail. All of our cabins feature: Cedar hot tubs. Memory foam mattresses. Top notch kitchens and cookware. Weber gas grills. Fast, reliable WiFi. Wood stoves and fire pits Hot tubs come in a variety of shapes, including round, square, rectangular and oval, and which one you choose is really a matter of personal preference. Determining seating capacity should depend on how many people will be using it, and we offer several options, including 4-person hot tubs and 6-person hot tubs CEDAR HOT TUBS; CABINS; Log Cabin; Seattle - Log Cabin; Seattle - Log Cabin. The Seattle is a contemporary designed pent roof Log Cabin with cylinder locking double door and opening double glazed windows. Also available with door and window bars. The walls are 44mm tongue and groove construction and 19mm tongue and groove floor and roof with. Ipe diagonal decking.Custom cedar hot tub surround. Cedar half lap pergola with custom detail.Handmade white oak rocker and chairs. Deck retrofit, Ipea handrail. Timbertek decking with powdercoated aluminum railing. (206) 941-0999 • PO Box 68232 Seattle, WA 98168 | ross renovation 2010. Seattle LGBTQ-owned eateries to support this month; Back at the outpost in the early evening, smoke unfurled from the fire heating water for the two cedar hot tubs, beckoning us to enter

Hot Tubs & Supplies in Seattle, Everett, Tacoma, Olympia

A multi-level deck incorporates a hot tub and extends the living space into the west-facing rear garden. Materials and details are natural and honestly expressed. Exterior materials include Corten steel, stained cedar, and black anodized aluminum Other features include: Large cedar hot tub, dock, one car garage large enough for a full size SUV, plus parking for 3 more cars, yard service, and radiant in floor heat throughout. Tenant must maintain hot tub if using as well as boat moorage. AVAILABLE NOW. 1st, last, and 1 month rent deposit. 12-18 month lease. No smoking At the end of a great day exploring around Mt Hood, you will want to head out to the traditional Swedish inspired cedar soaking tub (kept at 104 degrees) next to Camp Creek trickling by. This 3-level vacation home provides plenty of room for up to 10 guests with 4 bedrooms and 2 ½ bathrooms A slate hot tub overlooking the Pacific Ocean should be enough to convince you to visit Wildspring Guest Habitat.Tucked away from the touristy portions of the southern Oregon coastline, Wildspring eco-resort is just a few minutes from downtown Port Orford, Oregon. Its cabins are separated from one another by stands of trees that glimmer gold and green in the morning light, surrounded by a lush. seattle-tacoma (sea) siskiyou county (ssk) skagit / island / SJI (mvw) wenatchee, WA (wen) red cedar hot tub $4,000 (pdx > saint johns) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $500. 2021 4-7 Person Hot Tub Spas Starting at $5699 Delivered $5,699.

Matthews Beach Garden – Seattle Landscape Architect

Wood Hot Tubs - Robert's Hot Tubs - Wooden Hot Tubs, Cedar

What number of jets are available for Hot Tubs? The number of jets can vary between 0 and 96 jets for Hot Tubs depending on your preference. Check out one of our popular hot tub options, Siesta LS 5-Person 70 Stainless Jets Lounger 240-Volt Hot Tub with stainless steel Heater ozone and Built-in Ice Bucket The cabin is a 25 min drive to downtown Leavenworth, a 3 min drive to Plain, 15 min to Lake Wenatchee, and a 35 min drive to Stevens Pass. Cedar hot tub spa set at 102 degrees. The space. One dog is allowed for a 75 dollar fee. Surroundings - The cabin is set in the Ponderosa Estates in a woodsy neighborhood

Best KOA Campgrounds Near Beaches And The Coast

5725 36th Avenue Northeast, Seattle, WA 98105 is a single family home not currently listed. This is a 3-bed, 1.75-bath, 1,720 sqft property Order Your Custom Spa Cover. It only takes a few, simple steps. ALL ONLINE ORDERS ARE PICK UP ONLY. AT THIS TIME WE ARE NOT OFFERING SHIPPING 4-7 Person Hot Tub Spas Starting at $5699 Delivered. $5,699 (Salem) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $34,800. favorite this post. Jun 28 2021 4-7 Person Hot Tub Spas Starting at $5699 Delivered. $5,699 (cor > Oregon Coast) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $1,900 The Embassy Suites Hotel Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and Seattle Airport Marriott are some great alternatives, and these are 70 miles and 70 miles away from White Pass Ski Area. White Pass Nordic Yurt Café (48850 U.S. 12, Naches), a popular local coffee shop, is only 0.1 miles from White Pass Ski Area

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seattle-tacoma (sea) siskiyou county (ssk) skagit / island / SJI (mvw) wenatchee, WA (wen) red cedar hot tub $4,000 (pdx > saint johns) pic hide this posting restore restore this posting. $2,000. favorite this post Jul 1 WANTED Spa / Hot Tub - Pay Most Cash - Free Removal $2,000 (pdx > Greater Portland / WA Area). The hot tub inflates in minutes and the rapid heating system quickly heats the water to 104 degrees. The digital control panel lets you adjust the temperature without having to get out of the tub. You'll hardly notice this hot tub is inflatable with the stylish wood-print design that gives it the look of a real wooden hot tub Our 21 acres includes several cabins (currently on Airbnb), two bell tents, dining lodge (also our home), bathhouse (Finnish sauna and cedar hot tub coming this summer!), a small outdoor amphitheater and a meditation and movement hall. Enjoy our fire pits and circles, lovely walking paths and a rock labyrinth Built 15 feet above a waterfall and a Koi pond, this romantic garden treehouse in Schaumburg, Illinois has private access to a flower and bird-filled garden with a cedar hot tub, private shower with hot water, and gas grill. The treehouse itself has air conditioning, a fireplace, a full-size bed and twin sleeping loft, a private deck, and a. Wooden Hot Tub. Wooden hot tubs cost $3,000 to $7,000. Using redwood, cedar or teak, they have a round design with seating. It comes in pieces so you can easily get it to the room or space of your choice. Wood is a traditional choice, but it's not as widely available now